Becoming A Vegan
Veganism can be a loaded word. For some, it symbolizes a spiritual, healthy, and humane way of eating. For others, it conjures up thoughts of skinny, animal rights zealots.
Donovan Green is a martial artist, author, personal trainer, nutritionist, and…
…a vegan. As a Jamaican-born, Bronx-bred, muscular, ball of energy, he turns the negative stereotypes about vegans upside down.
Donovan stuttered as a child and was the victim of bullies. Not wanting to remain a victim, he took up exercise and martial arts. His body grew stronger and he became more confident. He also gained more empathy and a love of people who were facing similar struggles.
Now, as a personal trainer, he calls these people, “The Forgotten Crowd.” These are the people who aren’t worrying about bikini bodies and six-pack abs. They just want to feel better and be healthy.
A career as a personal trainer was the perfect vehicle to not only express his love and empathy but to help people make the same changes he had.
Giving Up Red Meat
Donovan first ventured into veganism about 22 years ago. Something in his spirit told him that eating meat was not the right thing for him to do. He wondered, if the spices his mother and other’s cooked with gave the food most of its flavor, why you would need to take an animal life to add to the plate? This wasn’t consistent with the spiritual, peaceful life he was gradually being drawn to.
He first gave up red meat. Then he cut back on his consumption of fish and chicken. Over the next several years, he intermittently followed a strict vegan diet. Over that period, he sometimes gave into a desire for fish or chicken. He also flirted with vegetarianism and added dairy and eggs to his food plan. But over the last three years he dove all the way in. He has not consumed any animal products in the last three years.
Getting Enough Protein As A Vegan
He gets tired of the question, “How do you get enough protein?” He points out that because of overabundance in Western society, people are already consuming too much protein. This is putting an unhealthy load on their internal organs.
He also says that if you eat a varied diet of vegetables, fruits, and whole grains, you will get all the protein you need – along with the micronutrients that most people are missing in their protein-heavy diets. Donovan listens to his body to tell him what it needs in the way of nutrients. He gets his clients to slow down to pay attention to their own nutrition signals.
It’s attention to fresh, organic food, micronutrients, and resistance training that have given him his impressive physique and energy. Protein is not a focus and animal protein is not a necessity.
Donovan is proof that you can build a strong body without animal protein. In fact, Donovan says that he is faster, stronger, and more muscular since becoming a vegan.
Donovan gives the example of animals like gorillas, oxen, and horses that become quite powerful on their version of a vegan diet.
Veganism and Six-Pack Abs
He wants people to understand that veganism is not a weight loss plan. It’s a way of eating that excludes animal products. If you’re a vegan, you can (and many do) still eat a lot of junk. He points out his “Kryptonite”food of Oreos as an example. Oreos are technically ok for vegans to eat. They make that “cream-filled” center with something other than real cream. He understands his weakness and carves out a monthly ritual with his son where they share an entire package of Oreos.
He doesn’t hide this weakness from his clients. He lets them know he is human, too, and that makes him more relatable. That kind of sharing also means that they will be more open to looking at the healthy aspects of his lifestyle and modeling those.
He wants his clients to pay even more attention to the “primary food” of healthy relationships, a rewarding career, and a spiritual practice.
Donovan makes it clear that some people aren’t cut out for veganism. His hope is that rather than divide ourselves with competing food gospels, people of good faith will join together to address the issues that affect all of us. Things like the growing threat to clean air and water, and sustainable food supplies.
You can get Donovan Green’s Chair Workouts app here. His book, No Excuses Fitness is on Amazon. Follow him on Facebook at Donovan Green TV.
Interview notes from the show:
Pedram:
Hey, welcome back to the Health Bridge. This is Dr. Pedram Shojai here in studio with Donovan Green. This gentleman right here-
Donovan Green:
Ah.
Donavan Green’s Backstory
Pedram:
He just broke my hand. I met him on the set of the Dr. Oz Show. He walks in just full of life and full of enthusiasm. He has been Dr. Oz’s personal trainer for some time and is now just doing all kinds of interesting things. I’m going to read some of your stuff just so we can get that out of the way. Certified ACE, certified IFA personal trainer. Black belt in martial arts. This guy is tough. This guy can kick some butt. I love it because he’s the nicest guy you’ll ever meet. Kickboxing instructor, integrative nutritionist, and the author of a book called No Excuses Fitness, which is awesome.
We immediately connected and there was an interesting element to Donovan’s story that I thought would be incredibly relevant with all the stuff that we’ve been talking about, all this paleo this and protein that. This big, muscular dude right here is a vegan. I was like all right we got to talk about this. How are you a vegan. I thought I was supposed to eat that bison to get big, right? I really want to get into how it is that a tough kid from the Bronx who grew up having to fight his way through situations and then psychologically work his way through situations got into fitness and got into fitness in this way, which is “Hey I don’t eat animals.”
Donovan Green:
Yeah, it’s an interesting question, man. For me, I used to love steak, love oxtail from Jamaica. Oh my gosh, stew peas and pig’s tail. Mama say what’s for dinner, it’s like, “Mama, I’m hungry.” Let me tell you, but as the years went on I started realizing that every time I took a bite into flesh, something in my spirit just didn’t feel corrected. It felt like there was something off and I was still eating it. It tastes so good. Then, one day I started talking to a few friends and I said, “Guys, what would happen when you’re cooking food and somebody’s cooking chicken or a piece of steak, and it smells good, what smells good? Is it the actual flesh that smells good or is it the seasoning that smells good?” They said, “Yeah, it’s the seasoning.” I said, “What would it smell like if you were just cooking just the meat by itself? Would it be something you really want to eat?” They said, “No way.”
So, I said why are we eating it then? We’re just eating the seasonings and dead meat and dead flesh. I started breaking this stuff in my head. I’m like there’s something wrong man, there’s something off man. I want to say something like 22 years ago, I decided to stop eating beef and pork and all that other stuff, but I still ate chicken and fish. I did it for a while, on and off, and off and off.
Well, going back into the fitness aspect, what got me into fitness? I got my butt beat, beat down, I mean whooped, right? That was an eye opener for me. It never feels good to be a victim. It never feels good to be beaten up or picked on or bullied. I was bullied too as a Jamaican kid, because I didn’t speak very good-
Pedram:
You were born in Jamaica?
Donovan Green:
I was born in Jamaica.
Pedram:
Came to the Bronx when?
Donovan Green:
Yeah, 84.
Pedram:
84?
Donovan Green:
Yeah.
Pedram:
Okay.
Donovan Green:
For me, I was speaking so fast. I was a fast talker. Like I’d be a … Guy’s talking so quick and they don’t understand what I said…just like that, and they’re like, “What he just said? What did he just say?” I had to learn how to slow down my speech and I stutter. People don’t know I stutter. I have to teach myself how to control the stutter. Instead of st-t, like that, I would pause and then go back into the word. I taught myself all these other things, but I just found out my spirit was always tapped into itself. If something didn’t feel right, I would like, “Wait a minute. This don’t feel good, so let me try to find a way to make it feel good.”
Pedram:
So, you stopped eating the beef. You went to the chicken and fish, and you’re getting your protein from there. Then, at some point you decided to jump off this other cliff and become a complete flesh free vegan.
Donovan Green:
Dive straight down into it, down, boom.
Pedram:
All right, so the big question here, and we’re going to get back into the back story because I’m just going to just keep weaving this, is how does all this happen? How do you keep all this muscle on?
Donovan Green:
I don’t mind. This stuff? This is the shirt.
Pedram:
Oh, got it.
Donovan Green:
This is the shirt.
Pedram:
He’s actually a really skinny dude.
Donovan Green:
I’m really a skinny, I’m really puny, puny. This is the shirt. It just blow up.
Gaining Muscle Mass Without Relying On Protein
Pedram:
Because I mean the dominant theory is like hey, you need a ton of protein to feed all this stuff to be big and muscular.
Donovan Green:
Sure, yeah. That’s the theory, right? Yeah, so it’s not a fact.
Pedram:
How many grams of protein do you take?
Donovan Green:
I don’t count it.
Pedram:
You don’t count it?
Donovan Green:
No, I don’t count it. Here’s my thing. As a vegan, one of the craziest questions I always hear is, “Where do you get your protein from?” Muscles need way more than protein in order to grow, in order to sustain itself, right. We still need fats. We still need carbohydrates. We need folic acid. We need to have zinc. We need iron. We need all these magnesium and potassium. People don’t ask that question. Where do you get your protein from? The job of protein is to what? To repair those tissues, right. It’s not really to get you big. I tell people my protein comes from everything, from all the greens that I eat, protein is in it. Avocado has protein. There’s protein in everything. Okay, what about the, “Oh, is it a complete protein?”
Yeah, it’s a complete protein. If it’s made, it’s a complete protein. I understand science says you need niacin, you need all these different things, but for me, when I’m eating my foods, I want to know where I’m getting all my micronutrients from and all my macronutrients from. Then, comes my training. You have vegans who are overweight. You have people who are, “You’re a vegan and you’re fat?” People think that. Well, vegan is not a diet. It’s not a weight loss diet. It’s just a choice that you make. You don’t want to have meats, but you can still have all those other junk stuff.
Packing on muscle? I lift weights. I lift heavy weights. I do high volume. I do high reps. I do high lows. I do martial arts. I’m doing push ups. I’m working outdoors. I’m always keeping my body fit. Size is … I’ve never lost any size since I became a vegan, ever.
Pedram:
You were this size as a meat eater?
Donovan Green:
As a meat eater.
Pedram:
You’re a fitness guy. You did all this stuff. You became a fitness guy. You’re eating what the fitness guys eat and then you switched?
Donovan Green:
Then I switched. People said, “You know D, you’re going to lose so much weight, bro. You’re going to get weak.”
Pedram:
You’re going to be scrawny.
Donovan Green:
You’re going to be scrawny bro. All that energy you’ve got is going to be done. I said, “Yeah, okay, let’s see what happens.” In fact, my power actually increased a lot more.
Pedram:
You got stronger?
Donovan Green:
I got stronger.
Pedram:
Did you get quicker? Did you get more agile?
Donovan Green:
Everything in fitness. In the martial arts, all my martial arts brothers recognized that. It was like, “Wow, bro, you’re a vegan? You went vegan? You got faster, you got stronger, you got more agile, more flexible. How is that possible?” Because everyone is under the assumption that you’re a vegan, so you’re going to lose the weight and you’re going to be weak, and you’re going to look sickly, like you’re on crack or something. Like, “Look at me guys. I don’t have any energy anymore.” You know it’s not the case.
Pedram:
How long ago was this?
The Difference Between Veganism and Vegetarianism
Donovan Green:
This was … When I did the vegan first, I’m going to tell you the steps, this was probably six years ago when I became vegan. During that time, I did veganism, but then I back to chicken again, then I went back to fish again, then I went back to vegetarian again. People don’t realize vegetarian and vegans, very, very different. A vegetarian can still have eggs. They can still have cheese. They can still do dairy. Vegans is only plant based stuff. I was still fighting that. Like, “I need to have some chicken.” Mom’s in there making some curry chicken. I’m looking like, “Damn, that looks so good.” I miss mama’s food. Yep. I’m saying, “Mommy, I love you Mama.” You start eating that, you’re like, “Damn. I ain’t going back to vegan ever again. I’m tearing this chicken up.” But, I still didn’t have any red meat.
Pedram:
Six year ago, then at some point, you go back to the birds?
Donovan Green:
Right. Back to the birds again, right. Now, three years ago, I decided to be back to full pledge vegan. Go right back to veganism, don’t look back, don’t look at anything. My spirit said, it grabbed me by the neck, was like, “Yo, are you ready?” I’m ready. So, 100%. I don’t have any temptations.
Pedram:
These last three years, you’ve maintained your weight, you’ve maintained your strength?
Donovan Green:
Yes, and mental clarity as well.
Pedram:
Yeah, I’d love to see your blood work.
Donovan Green:
I would love to show it to you, because for me … Now, another thing too people say about size. I say okay, where do I get my size from? Where do gorillas get their size from?
Pedram:
Vegetables.
Donovan Green:
You know ox, cows, horses, giraffes, these … all these animals are vegans. I think protein too is overrated. I think people focus too much on protein. Protein, protein, protein, protein. You need to get this much protein or that much protein. I really feel that’s the industry that’s trying to make money. Right? You need to have one gram of protein per body weight, so if you’re 190 pounds, you need to have to have 190 grams of protein per body weight every single day. What is that doing to your liver? It’s killing it, right? You’re body can’t synthesize that the way it should. Your body’s like, “Okay, what are we going to do?” I tell people be mindful of the protein as well. Don’t overkill yourself.
Listening To Your Body Versus Counting Calories
Pedram:
Okay, so how much food do you eat? Do you just take these big, huge, kind of variant dishes of vegetables?
Donovan Green:
No. No. I don’t eat a lot.
Pedram:
You don’t eat a lot. How many calories a day?
Donovan Green:
I don’t know.
Pedram:
You don’t count?
Donovan Green:
I don’t count. I don’t get caught up in the count and stuff.
Pedram:
Now, hold on. Time out. This is a guy who’s been trained to count so it’s not like he’s not counting because he doesn’t know better. You stopped counting?
Donovan Green:
Right. I stopped counting. I just know when my body’s hungry, I eat. My body has been with me forever. I’m 40-years-old. My body has been with ever me since day one. I know my body and I listen to my body. “Are you hungry? Okay, time to eat. Oh, you’re thirsty? Drink some water.” I don’t go crazy taking these numbers down, and oh my god, how many calories did I have today? Oh, 500 calories less than yesterday. My body is the perfect trainer. My body is the best dietician ever and my body says this is what you need right now.
Pedram:
Okay, so you’re a fit dude who comes from a history of fitness, so your body’s already kind of driving in that direction.
Donovan Green:
Yes, absolutely.
How To Get Started With Fitness
Pedram:
Your body is saying, “I like muscle. I like oxygen. I like going.” Okay. Someone comes into your world, is 50 pounds overweight. Their body is saying, “I want Doritos. I want crap. I want to sleep and I don’t want to do your push ups.” How do you turn that corner for somebody who is not already lined up and firing in that direction?
Donovan Green:
You know what I do with people like that? I have a concept, a step that I call the Why Method. The Why Method is I ask the person that question, “Okay, so why don’t you want to do the push ups?”
“Because I just don’t want to.”
“Why?”
“Because I’m not in the mood.”
“Why?”
“Because I don’t think I’m strong enough.”
“Why?”
Every answer they give me, I will keep on asking them why. That’s my job. I just want to know why, until they start to realize, “Whoa, why am I doing that? Why don’t I want to do a push up?” Then, I like to talk about death as well. I talk to people about the fact that you’re killing yourself spiritually. I don’t care if you want to be a vegan or you want to be a meat eater, it’s about making the better choices, right? I talk to them about my lifestyle. What are the things that I love? What junk foods do I love? I love Oreos. I tell people, as a vegan, oh by the way, Oreo is vegan by mistake. There’s no dairy in it. It’s all vegan.
Pedram:
Come on. It’s because of all of the sugar?
Donovan Green:
It’s the sugar. It’s just crap, but it’s still vegan.
Pedram:
That’s your kryptonite, right?
Donovan Green:
That’s my kryptonite, right. I tell people this. Instead of putting on this façade like hey, I’m a personal trainer and I’m a vegan and I do this. This is what I do perfect. No. No. I want to show you what I do that’s not so perfect, which makes me perfect. Because that’s what humans are, our perfection is our imperfection, right? When I talk to clients like this, they begin to listen and they begin to hear themselves as they talk.
Pedram:
Because you’re human.
Donovan Green:
Because you’re human and they can relate.
Pedram:
How often do you get an Oreo in your mouth?
Donovan Green:
Once every six months. It’s not an Oreo, it’s a pack of Oreo. Let’s correct that.
Pedram:
You go to town?
Donovan Green:
I go to town, baby. I get the pack, me and my son, we sit down, watch a movie, pop in some Netflix. Dorren, you ready? Yeah, Dad, I’m ready. Go get the milk, baby. Get the milk. We tearing that Oreo up and I’m no guilt too, no guilt. Because you know what? It’s our time together. It’s our fun. It’s our perspective. We’re looking at, “Yo, how’s the Oreo?” Last Oreo, we’re going to fight over that. It’s making it fun, but knowing that it’s a habit that’s controlled.
Pedram:
You’re having an Oreo party, and you’re getting it all contained in there?
Donovan Green:
Correct. It’s done. It’s over. Boom.
Pedram:
It’s kind of like Amsterdam having a red light district. We understand it’s going to happen, but let’s just-
Donovan Green:
Right. Let it pass, right. After tomorrow, back to normal again.
Pedram:
What’s normal?
Donovan Green:
In what sense?
Pedram:
You get up in the morning?
Donovan Green’s Daily Regimen For Good Health
Donovan Green:
You mean my daily regimen?
Pedram:
Yeah.
Donovan Green:
When I get up in the morning, the first thing I do is I thank God. I’m very thankful. I thank him for everything. That’s just my first thing, I thank for waking up. I look at my kids. I check their heart rate. I check my wife’s heart rate. My wife’s heart rate, damn it, she’s still alive. All right. I love you baby. You know I’m just playing around. I check these things and I’m grateful. The next thing I do is stretching. I do about 20 minutes of stretching. I stretch upper body, lower body. I stretch even my mind by just reading things and trying to memorize them. I want to work on the memories. After that, I’m on the computer, check my Facebook. Answer some questions, go to Instagram, you know do the social media stuff. Then after that, I’m out. I’m on the phone, talking to people like you, doing meetings, doing shows, and just enjoying the rest of the day.
Pedram:
Okay. Breakfast?
Donovan Green:
Breakfast, sometimes no breakfast. Sometimes, I don’t want breakfast.
Pedram:
Okay, so you’re not thinking I’m intermittent fasting? You’re not hungry yet?
Donovan Green:
Yeah, just not hungry yet. Once again, I listen to my body. I get up in the morning and it might say, “Hey, let’s go have something to eat.” It would be a quick smoothie. Most of my diet, believe it or not, is juices, is smoothies and juices. I don’t really eat a lot of solids, right. Then, if it’s not hungry, it’s oh well whatever. We’ll eat later when you’re hungry. That’s what I do. It works well for me though. Somebody might try it and they’ll probably just be in the hospital for like six months.
Pedram:
Yeah, yep. You have a very specific physique that you’ve built. You went from the martial arts, you found fitness. You didn’t want to get your butt kicked, and so you stepped into this fitness thing and it kind of became you.
Donovan Green:
Correct.
Pedram:
Right?
Donovan Green:
Yeah.
Pedram:
You’re living off of interest from years of doing the right thing as well?
Donovan Green:
Yeah, of doing the right thing. Correct, and continuing to do the right thing. For me, when I’m working out, so my friends are asking, “Yo, D, how do you lift the weights that you lift?” I tell them, “Well, it’s simple. It’s a war. This is war, and if you’re in war, you do what it takes to survive.” When I’m lifting those weights, that’s the enemy and I’m going to win. I’m going to beat that weight. I will push that weight, press the weight, curl the weight. It’s over. It’s done. The same thing applies to my diet. I don’t train myself to eat just because food is readily available. Our ancestors wasn’t like that. We didn’t just go in the fridge and just pop a fridge open and be like eat when you want to eat. In my mind, I put myself in that survival state of mind. It’s like what if we didn’t have food? If we didn’t have food in the abundance that we have now, how would I survive? When I’m eating, I’m thinking that, eat when I’m hungry, eat when food is available. Okay, right now there’s no food available. What am I going to do? I put myself in these other worlds.
Pedram:
The warrior creates this resilience in the mind?
Donovan Green:
Yes.
Pedram:
You are fortunate to have that. That’s how you and I started bro-ing down when we first met was this like hey this guy’s got the discipline, right?
Donovan Green:
Correct.
Pedram:
I get that. Right. You either die trying or you stand in front of your enemies, whatever your enemies are.
Donovan Green:
That’s right.
Pedram:
Now, you got a client that just came in that’s full of excuses-
Donovan Green:
Which I’m used to.
Pedram:
Yeah, and full of extra calories and just doing some wrong things, do you give them specific diet advice?
How To Choose A Diet That Works For You
Donovan Green:
No, no, no I never give a client a specific diet advice. I only use myself as that visual. This is what I do. This is how I live my life. Now, let’s work on how we can help you to live your life this way. What are the things that works for you? Because every person is different. Right? This is one of the things I’m very tired of seeing. I’m tired of seeing the cookie cutter. The dietician that says, “You want to lose weight, cut your calories.” But, that’s not always the case, because they have people who are overweight, they don’t eat a lot. The body’s always in starvation mode, so it stores fat.
For me, I want to know the grass roots level of the things that’s going on in your life right now. I want to know what’s happening over here with your home? What’s going on with your finances? What’s happening to your spirituality? What’s going on with just your love life? Where are the things that’s lacking? In integrative nutrition, we call that the primary foods, right? We have the secondary foods which is the stuff that we eat, what we drink, but you have the primary food, which is really what goes on in here. Your show of vitality talks about your primary foods as well. That’s what I want people to tap into is that wisdom of self.
Pedram:
So, I come in. I have my very specific life circumstances that have led me into whatever the scenario is that is now saying, “Hey look I’m fat. I’m tired. I’m this. I’m depressed.” You start getting people moving. Through getting people moving, it’s about helping them find food choices that support this new level of movement in life?
Donovan Green:
Yes, correct. I want people to find out the foods that they have in their kitchen right now, what can you do to, not to stop eating those foods, but what can you add to make the food better? For example, waffles. My kids loves waffles, loves waffles. Instead of taking a waffle and loading it up with syrup, what I do is I create a waffle witch. I take two waffles, and I have the recipe in my book. I take two waffles, you take some peanut butter, natural organic peanut butter. You spread that peanut butter on top of that waffle. Then, you take some low fat caramel, sprinkle a little bit of that caramel on that. You take some slice of strawberries, fold it, cut it, bang, batabing, boom, done. Eat.
Pedram:
Some of my paleo friends would have a heart attack hearing this right now.
Donovan Green:
Of course they would. They would probably be like what did he just say?
Pedram:
Are your kids obese? Are you kids healthy?
Donovan Green:
My kids are healthy. My kids are spiritually healthy, mentally healthy, emotionally healthy, physically healthy. They are strong. They stay active. They make me work, man. Those are my personal trainers.
Pedram:
You got to chase after those guys.
Donovan Green:
Of course.
Creating A Career In Fitness
Pedram:
Yeah, absolutely. You grew up in the Bronx. You grew up in fitness. You became the owner of a gym, and by the way, we have an Urban Monk episode as well with Donovan, just because his back story is so interesting there in terms of like how he had to step into who he is. But, then you became a fitness guy. You started working with Dr. Oz. How did that work? How did this personal enthusiasm towards fitness end up becoming a career and now what does it look like?
Donovan Green:
Yeah, it’s so interesting. For me, how it became a career was I reflected on how it felt to be a fat kid. I reflected on what it felt like to be this chubby kid with man boobs and a gut and people making fun of me, people laughing at me because I was chubby or because I was blacker than them or because I had a different accent. It didn’t feel good to be on that end of the stick. I think about other people. What are other people feeling like and how can I not become those people that make fun of people? Instead I want to help people. I started looking at my love for fitness and my love for people and that’s what dragged me into that field. I mean I fit the Jamaican stereotype. They say Jamaican’s have 20 jobs. I had like 60 jobs. Sixty of them. Electrician, plumber, barber, engineer. I was anything you could think about, I did landscaping, roofing. I did everything and people that know me, they say, “Yeah, he’s telling the truth. He did all of that.”
Pedram:
Just to make ends meet, because you couldn’t figure out what?
Donovan Green:
No, because I just loved doing different things. I enjoyed learning. For me, if my brain’s not learning, I’m not happy. You’ll see me like this the whole time. I have to learn something. I have to learn something. When I started doing that, I was like, “You know what? There’s still a part of me that’s saying go into fitness. Go into fitness. Do fitness.” Because that’s what I loved and then I decided to do it. I got home. I looked at my wife. I said, “Guess what? I don’t think I want to do anything anymore except fitness.” I did it. I went and got a job the same day in the top gym in New York. I wasn’t certified as a trainer. I got into that gym. The trainers told me, “You’re going to have a hard time making money here, because nobody signs up with anybody new here. They only want the older trainers.” I said, “Really?” Telling me I can’t do something is the best thing you could ever do.
Pedram:
Yep. Thank you.
Donovan Green:
The same day, I got four people signed on to that, and they loved me, but I didn’t like corporate gyms.
Pedram:
Yep.
Donovan Green:
But, I really loved that and that’s what got me into it. That’s where I met Dr. Oz too, later on.
Pedram:
Most people don’t like corporate gyms.
Donovan Green:
No.
How To Not Be Intimidated By Working Out
Pedram:
Corporate gyms, you mentioned this in the other show, corporate gyms are filled with people who already want to be in corporate gym. Most people who have health issues, are overweight, and need to get moving, hate the gym.
Donovan Green:
They hate the gym.
Pedram:
So, what do we do?
Donovan Green:
They’re intimidated by the gym. What I do is I always think about how can I bring something to them at home? Because, that’s where they are. I don’t have enough clones of me. I don’t have enough. I only have one. I’m the clone right now, you think I’m Donovan, right? But, so the whole thing is I created an app called Chair Workouts. The app is a behavioral modification app. The idea is to show people all I need from you is simply a minute of movement on every hour of the hour. If you could start moving from stretching to strength to building your core to working on your mobility, working on your balance, you’re going to see and feel a big difference. That is one of the things I do to help these audiences. I call them the forgotten crowd, the forgotten crowd. It’s people who we forget about. The fitness industry focuses only on these six pack abdominals. Look at those guns and boom look at the bootie, right? The forgotten crowd. That’s where my focus is at. Even with veganism, as a vegan, my focus is even in that community as well.
I want to teach people you should not force your beliefs on someone else. You should not force, because you’re a vegan and this guy is not a vegan, you should not force this guy to be a vegan if he doesn’t want to be a vegan, he doesn’t want to be a vegan. Same thing in fitness. If this person don’t want to go to a gym, you can’t force them to go to the gym, but what I can do is I can guide them to start bringing the gym to them, right? Giving you little pointers. You don’t want to be a vegan, no problem, but I would love to see you putting more vegetables on your plate though. See? It’s just guidance. Giving a solution, not worrying about the problem all the time. What is the solutions?
Pedram:
Most of the western world is eating processed stuff.
Donovan Green:
Yes.
Pedram:
Most of the western world is stagnant and not moving around.
Donovan Green:
Correct.
Pedram:
That forgotten crowd is actually the crowd. The people that we’re seeing on TV, the people we’re seeing in these pictures, that’s like the 1% that are flexing and acting like everyone is supposed to look like that. The fat Jamaican kid who was getting his ass kicked turns into this guy and now you want to be the champion for the people who are in that forgotten crowd?
Donovan Green:
Correct.
Pedram:
So you start with the chair, you start moving, and you start looking at what you’re eating, but you’re not counting calories, so just help me get into this world. If I’m listening to this, how do I go like, “Okay, I want to do what he’s talking about?”
The Importance Of Listening To Your Inner Self
Donovan Green:
Right, so it’s easy to get into it. I tell people start simply. How do you start? You start listening to your inner self. See, we don’t listen to our inner self. I tell people we’re so connected to the internet, we’re not connected to the inner net. We’re not connected to what’s happening inside of our bodies. When you’re driving a car, for example, and the check engine light goes on, what do you do?
Pedram:
Keep driving.
Donovan Green:
You keep driving. Only you, Pedram, only you.
Pedram:
Literally, this week that happened.
Donovan Green:
I know, you keep on driving, whatever. Burn the engine out, whatever. Go buy another car. But, the oil light go on, they go and get an oil change. The gas go on, they go and get more gas. Your hands is your check engine light. Your hands is everything, so what’s happening to your body, your hands is going to always touch. If you have a headache, you’re going to do like this. If you have a stomachache, you’re going to do like this. If you’re shoulders is messed up, you’re going to do like this. I tell people, to get started, start listening to your body. What is your check engine light telling you? What needs to get fixed? What needs to get adjusted? How are you going to do that?
As a trainer, I’m limited in my scope of practice. I’m not a doctor, so I tell them go and check a doctor. Find out what’s happening, what’s going on in your blood, what’s happening, right, but here’s one thing you can start doing though. You can definitely start moving more. You can’t get to the gym, go outside and go on a walk. Enjoy the elements. Feel the air smacking at the back of your neck or something. Just keep it nice, keep it normal, keep it soft. Don’t go heavy, just start. Because the hardest thing Pedram is for people to get started.
How To Ensure You Are Living A Healthy Vegan Lifestyle
Pedram:
Yep, here’s the problem. I had a lot of hate mail from our last movie because we talked about if you’re going to eat animals, eat only pasture raised animals, and all these vegans just attacked, saying, “How dare you.” It was just like look people do eat animals, right? I’ve tried to be a vegetarian. I’ve tried to be a vegan. I had trouble with it physiologically. How does one transition to become a vegan and know that when they’re checking their lights and things are working, that they’re actually healthy? Because, I’ve had a handful of very unhealthy vegans come through my clinics where it’s just like, “Hey, you’re not eating anything right. You’re just eating carbohydrates and you’re screwing yourself up.” Right? So how does one do veganism right?
Donovan Green:
Veganism is, first of all how do they do it wrong? All right. That’s what I ask people. How do you do it wrong? What I mean by wrong is that they will immediately jump to full, just high carbs, everything is high carbs and highly processed. They don’t think about their health. People assume that vegan is a diet. It’s not a diet. It’s not a weight loss diet. It’s not a health diet. It’s not even a healthy diet. It’s a choice that we make to not eat animal products. To become a vegan, first your spirit has to want to be a vegan. You cannot just choose to be a vegan because your best friend is a vegan and, “I want to follow what she’s doing because she lost 20 pounds and I want to do the same exact thing.” You have to be mentally and spiritually ready to become a vegan. It’s not something that happens overnight. You go through a process. I know I went through a process becoming a vegan. It wasn’t something that just quick I want to be a vegan and I’m just going to stick to veganism.
Pedram:
What was that process? Basically, the back and forth, back and forth?
Donovan Green:
Yeah, the process for me was definitely back and forth, the chicken, the fish. Not even thinking about fish and chicken dying the same exact way like cows or pigs. I looked at fish because they were much smaller. I’m like, “Wait a minute, but the fish are jumping around all over the place. He’s suffering. He’s suffocating. I don’t want to have that fish now, because now I see the pain it’s going through.” Then, I started thinking about the chicken getting the head cut off, running around the place without a head. I’m like, “No, that chicken he feels pain right now. I don’t want to be a part of that anymore.” My spirit just tightened down, locked in, and I said, “You know what? I no longer want to support anything that these companies are doing to these animals.”
Pedram:
Okay, and then how do you know you’re healthy as you go through? For you, you’re obviously doing fine. I’ve had a lot of patients kind of fall off and get just unwell by making food choices. I agree with you. Most of it was, “Okay, I don’t like this,” which is obviously not cool, like killing animals, just death of any sentient life is not where any spiritual tradition is like stoked on, right? But, then they go over to the standard American diet minus the protein, which is empty carbs.
Donovan Green:
Yes, the standard American diet known as SAD, right? And it really is sad. How does one know if your body is healthy or not? The first thing is, before you even go into a doctor, your body is going to tell you if you’re not healthy, because you’re going to have these headaches, you’re not going to see clearly, your brain is going to get brain fog. You’re going to feel achy in your joints. Your body is going to tell you all of this. Now, maybe you’re not made to be a vegan. I know people who are vegan, “Oh my God, how can he say that? He’s vegan and how can he say that?”
Pedram:
Well, it’s because it’s becoming a religion, right? I judge you for not being a vegan. That’s not … That’s an untenable stance.
Donovan Green:
Absolutely and it’s not a good stance to take, because once again you cannot force … I have friends who are Muslims. I have friends who are Christians. I have friends who label themselves with these names. For me, I’m just a spiritual guy. I could sit down and talk to anyone. I’ll tell them we can converse, but don’t force your beliefs on me. Don’t hang out with me because you think that you’re going to force me to join your ranks. The same thing with me as a vegan. I’m not going to hang out with you and look at you eating chicken and be like it’s so nasty. I’m not going to do that, because I don’t think it’s fair to do that.
How Long Does It Take For A Healthy Vegan Diet To Help?
Pedram:
Yep, and so how long will it take for someone to really start reaping the benefits?
Donovan Green:
Of veganism?
Pedram:
Yeah, and do people just jump over cold turkey?
Donovan Green:
Depending on the changes that a person is looking for, right, because some people will eat meat, like heavy amounts of meat, the meat just destroys your insides. Your body, it takes what, 72 hours for certain meats to digest, that’s three days. If a person is eating a piece of steak on a Monday. They eat pork sandwiches on a Tuesday and on a Wednesday they are having another piece of steak. Your stomach is like a pet cemetery, because you’re packing in all that meat. You got cows and-
Pedram:
Pet cemetery.
Donovan Green:
Pet cemetery man. You got cows and all these stuff lingering in your belly.
Pedram:
You wonder why your farts stink, right?
Donovan Green:
I know, right. But, it’s carcass. It’s dead flesh and your body is like, “Man, I feel so low energy.” I’ve had friends who went vegan and within one month, their energy level go up. Their skin complexion changes. Their posture, their attitude, everything changes. Then, I’ve seen people have reverse effects, becoming vegan. Their skin gets worse.
Pedram:
Because they’re detoxing?
Donovan Green:
No, because veganism just didn’t agree with them. Okay, people think everyone needs to be a vegan. They have studies now where they went and studied indigenous civilizations, right. People who, from Alaska all the way to Africa, and people who ate meat, cultures that had meat. Didn’t eat as much as we do now though.
Pedram:
I don’t think anyone-
Donovan Green:
Yeah, because the meat is just accessible to everybody now. It’s crazy, but these cultures were extremely healthy. Then, you have the ones who ate no meat and they were extremely healthy. Great teeth, good bone structure. Everything was perfect, right, so who’s to say what’s better and what’s not.
Pedram:
Yeah, there’s genetics. There’s all kinds of different kind of like bloodlines stuff that fits into this.
Donovan Green:
Absolutely.
Pedram:
Absolutely. I think we can agree on this. If you’re going to eat meat, have pastured animals that are healthy and slain humanely, right?
Donovan Green:
Well, there’s nothing known as humanely slaying.
Pedram:
No, there are ways to do it better.
Donovan Green:
I’m going to humanely kill my son. I’m going to humanely kill that man walking across the street. You’re still killing them.
Pedram:
Well, do they suffer? Right, and that’s where like kosher and halal and all these types of religious traditions come in is there’s ways to turn out the lights so the animal doesn’t suffer long. It’s just a quick death versus some of the other ways that have been done. Again, I’m not advocating here.
Donovan Green:
You see me-
Pedram:
Yeah, it’s making your stomach turn.
Donovan Green:
No, the reason why it made my stomach turn is the fact that these companies are making so much money and these animals are getting mass produced so fast, so quickly that if you see some of these videos of what they call humanely killing, it’s not humane at all.
Pedram:
Well, okay, so I think it’s not those people that are doing the humane killings, right. No, no, no. There’s some good ranchers that are trying different practices, religious people trying different practices. But, yeah, factory farming of animals, disgusting.
Donovan Green:
Yeah, it really is.
Pedram:
Disgusting.
Donovan Green:
It really is.
Pedram:
Yeah.
Donovan Green:
But, here’s a fact though. Here’s a fact. The fact is at the end of the day, you’re going to have people that eat meat and people who don’t eat meat. You’re going to have people who are blacks, you’re going to have people who are white. You’re going to have people who are rich, people who are poor. You’re going to have the opposite of everything and if people don’t learn how to stop focusing on all this negative stuff and learn how to combine to focus on the real issues that’s going on right now with the lack of water, the air being bad, the food shortage. There’s a lot of things going on and if people just start to look at those issues, I don’t think all these other issues would be so big anymore.
Pedram:
Well, yes, it’s a complete cycle. It’s a food chain and our involvement in it has been really dirty and really disgusting.
Donovan Green:
Yeah, it’s really bad.
Pedram:
I know.
Donovan Green:
It’s really bad.
Pedram:
Donovan. I don’t think we’ve settled this issue. There’s no issue to settle. You are a vegan. You are a stand up vegan, and you’re kicking butt doing it.
Donovan Green:
Yeah, man.
Pedram:
People can also look like this, right, and be a vegan. There are very good examples of people that are doing veganism successfully and you’re one of them. How can people find you so that if they do want to follow this path, they got a guy to talk to?
How To Follow Donovan Green’s Work Online
Donovan Green:
Find me in heaven, baby. No, they can find me on Facebook and they can find me at Donovangreentv on Facebook or they can find me at Chairworkouts on Facebook.
Pedram:
Donovangreentv or Chairworkouts.
Donovan Green:
Yes, absolutely.
Pedram:
Awesome. Great having you.
Donovan Green:
You’re awesome, brother.
Pedram:
Yeah, great to see you again.
Donovan Green:
You’re awesome, man.
Pedram:
Yeah, cheers.
